Sat
Nov 16 2019
06:55 am

Why do Republicans in Congress continue to protect the madman in the White House? He is not their party leader. He is a party of one. There is no conservative Republican party any more. There is only Trump.

The only plausible explanation for this lock-step support is that they are afraid of Trump. Or more specifically, his voters. They're afraid those voters will punish them at the polls if they do anything to oppose him.

Instead, they should consider this a "teachable moment" for their constituents. They should go back to their states and districts and explain that this is not normative or acceptable governance. They should educate their voters on why extraordinary measures are needed to correct it, and act accordingly. As the old saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole stop digging.

On the other hand, they are certainly entitled, indeed welcome, to continue down the path of their own party's destruction. They will not, however, like the outcome in November 2020.

Knoxoasis's picture

Some might consider record

Some might consider record low unemployment, record stock market values, relative peace and prosperity to be the actual benchmarks of a successful Presidency.

But tweets or whatever.

Mike Daugherty's picture

Reasonable and decent

Reasonable and decent Americans consider the long term effects of a Trump Presidency and the destructive policies he has implemented as a benchmark for a failed Presidency.

The gutless Republican lawmakers who in private admit to Trump being mentally unstable and unqualified for the Presidency are selling their souls to the evil wannabe dictator in exchange for political considerations. There will be terrible long term repercussions for their loyalty. His corruption and immoral actions are destroying our democracy.

Hitler got the support of the German people by building up Germany's military and putting millions of German people to work during the worldwide Great Depression. His evilness came close to succeeding in conquering Europe and the world. He was responsible for 60 million people being killed. Like Hitler, Trump's support is misguided and disturbing.

Anyone that considers Trump's policies such as making the rich richer and poor poorer, or having a reckless foreign policy that embraces dictators, or his constant lying and corruptness, or his being responsible for the death of many innocent men, women, and children, or his destruction of the environment, etc., benchmarks of a successful President, they are pathetic losers with no sense of morality.

Knoxoasis's picture

I call Godwin.

I call Godwin.

R. Neal's picture

Suggested

Suggested reading...

(link...)

bizgrrl's picture

Stock market means little to

Stock market means little to a lot.

It and the rest were in the works.

But, hey, having a hateful, corrupt president. Whatever.

calloway1972's picture

I hear what really matters to

I hear what really matters to people is a grand foreign conspiracy followed directly by another when the first doesnt pan out.

Democrats 2017,8: It’s patriotic to investigate election interference and potential corruption of our political rival.

Democrats 2019: It’s impeachable to investigate election interference and potential corruption of our political ally.

Meanwhile, the stock market hit 28k.

And 500,000 years from now when there's a good
economic indicator some fool will likely rise up and say it is because of something Obama did.

Do you folks realize how crazy you sound saying stuff like that ?

Most people are not obsessed with trump one way or the other. Incumbents with good economies get reelected. MuellerTime Maddow might not point that out often but it's true.

Mike Daugherty's picture

Occasionally I will turn to

Occasionally I will turn to Fox for a few minutes hoping they have actually starting to put a few facts into their reporting. The few times they have actually reported the facts with Sheppard Smith they immediately return to their right wing propaganda to inspire the nut types that support Trump and the old and vulnerable that put their trust in Fox without questioning and going anywhere else for the news except maybe their misguided preacher. Shep Smith finally gave up on a network that has always fabricated and twisted the truth out of news.

I could probably save some time and read your posts instead of wasting time with my occasional Fox viewing. Doing either makes me or any reasonable person want to hope and pray that you and your immoral President will see the light before more innocent people suffer and die.
Maybe you need to share your posts with Breitbart or the Aryan Nation or the Ku Klux Klan or maybe the American Nazi Party. You could probably get a lot more agreement with your views there as opposed to a site described as a place for progressive views.

R. Neal's picture

The gentleman is not

The gentleman is not recognized.
The gentleman will suspend.

Treehouse's picture

But the deficit!

n/t

Rachel's picture

This country needs two

This country needs two functioning political parties. Right now we have one. It's (way past) time for Republicans to put country over party (although it's not even their party any longer; it's been hijacked by Trump) and do something about it.
Winning reelection is not the most important thing in the world.

Alex_Falk's picture

liberal conceptions of functional governance & the national good

has it not occurred to anyone that potus & the GOP are, in fact, working more-or-less as intended for their primary & secondary constituents: capital & a plurality of reactionary proles?

the confluence of capitalism, evangelical christianity and nationalism is nothing less than an apocalyptic death cult. that doesn’t mean the GOP “isn’t functioning” or that the GOP will be “forever damaged”

the GOP is successful at politics because they understand politics is a struggle over power & resources, not a sorkin-esque morality play about civic virtue

Knoxoasis's picture

"Death cult" is a fairly

"Death cult" is a fairly ironic accusation coming from an adherent to a philosophy that killed hundreds of millions of people in the last century and is currently working it's magic in Venezuela, North Korea and probably other places I'm forgetting at the moment.

But of course Real Socialism™ hasn't been tried, and won't have been until it works.

Alex_Falk's picture

red scare

come on oasis, i know on some level we agree about liberals’ failure to analyze the political situation & every person here has grown up in a cultural stew of anti-communist rhetoric so maybe just leave the red scare tactics & obfuscatory moral myth-building for the spiraling liberals

Knoxoasis's picture

Actually, given the well

All due respect, given the well documented, utterly inarguable and extremely consistent record of Marxist regimes' purposeful humanitarian catstrophes, from the Holodomor in Stalin's Ukraine to the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward in China to the killing fields in Cambodia, in my opinion anyone who refers today to "red scares" deserves to be sent to the same corner as Holocaust Deniers. Given the world's experience with such regimes, arguments that we should give them another try are no more respectable to me than suggestions that National Socialism was just misunderstood.

Alex_Falk's picture

ok boomer

ok, if it’s “utterly inarguable” that your assumptions about what ideology you claim i “adhere to” make me “equivalent to a holocaust denier” then i shant engage further, even though marxism was not the topic of the original post nor my reply to it.

Knoxoasis's picture

I was about to edit that,

I was about to edit that, because it was personally harsher than I meant it to be. I do believe that crimes of Marxism are inarguable and inherent to the system but if I have misunderstood your beliefs I do apologize. I don't know you and that's too much of an assumption on my part. Frankly you are probably the person in this board i would find most interesting to meet irl.

Alex_Falk's picture

fair enough :)

of course i disagree completely about your characterization of marxism, i think critiques of capitalism are invaluable + unavoidable if the human race desires a future that is humane rather than barbarous

Roger Fleenor's picture

crimes of marxism

I would wager that 99 percent of those who committed the Crimes of Marxism didn't know the basic premises of Marxism

Celestial Dung's picture

Best Guess

I think a moderate percentage of Republican politicians are true believers. They approve of Trump because he's been saying things they've been thinking for years. I would guess around thirty to forty percent.

The rest are waiting for an opportunity to get Trump to resign. He resigns, gets pardoned, and it's considered a win for Republicans in the long term.

This is my nightmare scenario.

Eventually tangible evidence will be presented that President Trump committed an impeachable action. Maybe a recording, maybe a transcript, heck maybe his tax returns depending on how the Supreme Court leans on that on. So with a little bit of focus it should be evident that President Trump will be impeached and run out of office. Except upper rank Republicans won't let that happen. Right in the opening weeks after the document is published President Trump will be convinced that it would be in his best interest if he resigned. Trump agrees and departure speech will focus on deflection. He'll say something along the lines of "Democrats won't let me due my presidential duties so it's in the best interest of the country if I resign and allow President Pence to continue the great task of making America great again." Pence comes out and gives Trump a big ol' hug, because people love hugs, and pardons Trump stating a desire to heal the division that plague America.

So in this possible scenario what are we left with? Pence agrees with Trump supporters on a lot of key issues and beliefs but has none of baggage of Trump. At least that I'm aware of anyway. So if Democrats try to somehow paint him Trump he can shrug it off and say "Well I'm not Trump you need to debate me on the issues." Trump supporters will be the first wild card in that some of them will be convinced that Trump was driven out by a super secret government organization that both Democrats and Republicans are a part of. I think most would take Pence at his word but I'm not sure how big of a difference that would be.

Second wild card would be Democrats. I think a portion of liberals and Democrats are driven by getting Trump out of office. If Trump were to be replaced by Pence I'm not sure how many would be driven to vote Pence out.

So long post short, I think a lot of Republicans are just waiting for Trump to screw up so bad that they can kick him out and take advantage of a clean as a whistle Pence.

Hopefully I'm grasping at straws here, because a emboldened Pence presidency scares me, but to quote several hot dog space cadets....I have a bad feeling about this.

Tess's picture

Recommendation

I have been following Dr Heather Cox Richardson's posts on Facebook, but she produces a newsletter that you can subscribe to as well. She is a professor of political history at Boston College, a writer of history books and a political commentator (The Guardian has carried several of her opinion pieces). I highly recommend her daily analysis of our current political mess. Today's post (Nov 17) is very informative about Roger Stone's successful meddling into our elections from the Nixon presidency up until now. Her posts are by subscription (free) at heathercoxrichardson@substack.com. Reading her posts helps to make some sense of our current predicament, as she beautifully connects the dots.

R. Neal's picture

Guess who wrote this: "In 13

Guess who wrote this:

"In 13 months, all congressional Republicans who have not defended Congress by exercising “the constitutional rights of the place” should be defeated. If congressional Republicans continue their genuflections at Trump’s altar, the appropriate 2020 outcome will be a Republican thrashing so severe — losing the House, the Senate and the electoral votes of, say, Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina and even Texas — that even this party of slow-learning careerists might notice the hazards of tethering their careers to a downward-spiraling scofflaw."

(link...)

Alex_Falk's picture

we'll find out next year

not that i *don't* want the GOP to be thrashed, but i think people like donald trump, falwell junior and tim burchett are much, *much* more representative of the american conservative movement than the small cadre of conservative ivy-league NYT/WP op-ed writers who churn out content for their new audience of liberals eager for reassurance that there exist common-sense conservatives who share their moral mythology of civic virtue

bizgrrl's picture

New audience??? There are

New audience???

There are common-sense conservatives who share morals of civic virtue. The more they speak up the better.

Rachel's picture

If they aren't speaking up by

If they aren't speaking up by now, they value getting reelected more than "civic virtue."

Mike Daugherty's picture

Trump's supporters are either

Trump's supporters are either ignorant or racist or both. Any Republican, Democrat, or Independent that does not speak up about Trump's corrupt and evil actions is gutless or clueless or both. Americans, no matter their politics, have a moral responsibility to speak against Trump. Politicians that will not speak out do not deserve the respect of anybody.

Rachel's picture

No. Some Trump supporters

No. Some Trump supporters are smart and not racists. They are the worst of all because they know exactly what he is and continue to enable him in doing stuff they'd never do themselves.
These are the people I can't forgive.

Mike Daugherty's picture

A smart person has the

A smart person has the intelligence enough to look at the facts and make the easy conclusion that Trump is a racist. If they know he is a racist and they continue to support him and his racist actions and policies, it would appear that that person would be at least a smidge racist themselves. Would you not agree?

Rachel's picture

No. I just think they're

No. I just think they're cowards and hypocrites of the first order.

Alex_Falk's picture

sure!

certainly i agree these people exist -- i may even personally know a few "respectable common sense business conservatives" & NPR liberals who eat up the endless stream of never-trump op-eds!

i just don't think one should overestimate the accuracy of these folks' analysis or the relevance of their views to the american conservative movement, certainly the amount of op-ed column space given to them by a few august media institutions is not a good way to measure that relevance

Mike Daugherty's picture

Most of the people guided by

Most of the people guided by Trump, Falwell JR., Burchett, Franklin Graham etc. do not really have a clue about the ideas of the real conservative or liberal/progressive movements. They are not interested in facts or what is actually morally right. They are very happy being part of the Stupid Movement that rants and raves about immigration, abortion, gun rights, and gay rights. Listening mindlessly to their ignorant racist leader Trump and having that reinforced with a dose of Fox daily and then being reassured by their misguided evangelical (or equivalent) preacher on Sunday, is all the guidance they need in politics.

The election results come down to convincing maybe 10 -15 % of the voters. The others are really not listening, their votes are baked in.

Alex_Falk's picture

why do you get to define

sure, i understand what you are saying!

but this just seems like a semantic game -- why is it *you* who gets to define what is / isn't "real" conservatism? conservatives rarely make the mistake liberals often make: letting political opponents define the boundaries or terms of debate.

if the zeitgeist of the conservative movement isn't going to listen to the "oh dear"-ism & appeals to civic virtue, then the only audience for this kind of content are in fact the liberals themselves and a few of their now-out-of-power ("RINO"?) conservative friends

Roger Fleenor's picture

Tone deaf

I could be wrong but there seems to be a current of preening superiority toward other comments on this thread.
So why is someone of your intellectual abilities deigning to post here>

Alex_Falk's picture

i could also be wrong!

i could also be wrong, particularly about events that have yet to transpire! sorry if my posting style is agitating :) i am literally trying to agitate so it is what it is, no offense intended

i am worried that the wrong approach to politics will translate to failure in the fight against the right, so i am reflexively critical of whatever the conventional wisdom of the day is.

i think there is an inordinate amount of media bandwidth dedicated to telling folks what they want to hear and (mis)analysis of trump & the conservative movement in general makes up a huge chunk of that.

Somebody's picture

Gerry the Tiger

Republicans gerrymandered themselves into this problem. They are now riding the tiger of their own making. All those 'safe' House (and state legislature) districts they created are (mostly) safe from the Democrats, sure. When they created them, they were safe seats for conservatives. Then Trump came along and co-opted their constituency for Trumpism, which is not conservatism. (Who cares about deficits, military alliances, Russian aggression, or the dignity of the Office of the President anymore? ...among other things that used to be bedrock conservative Republicanism.)

Trump's polling average of approval ratings keeps plodding along in the low 40s. This is pathetic, from a historical perspective. He's the only President since they started tracking these things with Truman who has gotten this far into his term without ever cracking 50% approval. It's at 41.3% right now. The problem for Republicans? That pathetic approval rating is held up almost entirely by Republican voters, which means that tracking in the low 40s nationally translates into 80+% approval in those gerrymandered districts.

Had Republicans not put everything into gerrymandering their seats, there would actually be lots of competitive seats across the country held by Republicans, and they would be able to vote their conscience and impeach Trump. Back in their districts, they'd hold their seats in the primaries, because voters would know nominating a Trumpist wack-a-doodle would only hand the seat over to whatever Democrat is running. Then they'd have a chance to hold the seat against the Democrat, because of course they did the right thing and voted to impeach Trump.

Instead, they're going to be eaten by an orange tiger with a bad comb-over.

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